National Conversation Week 2023

This year's National Conversation Week runs from May 23-29 in the UK, and aims to encourage more conversations both in our professional and personal lives.

We spoke with a handful of people well known in the asbestos community to try and stimulate a wider conversation. We'll be sharing their responses here, and also on Twitter and LinkedIn, so please do get involved. We'd love to hear your thoughts.

Sir Stephen Timms MP

Do you think people working in schools, hospitals and other buildings operated by the public sector are aware of the risks of asbestos generally and the risks in their own workplace?

"I don’t think people are generally aware of the dangers of asbestos in workplaces."

What do you feel that politicians can realistically do to reduce the number of people who are exposed to asbestos?

"We need to support the key Select Committee recommendations: set up a central register, and set a deadline (we suggested forty years) for removing asbestos from workplaces."

As Chair of the Works and Pensions Committee what have you learned personally about asbestos that you were not previously aware of?

"I hadn’t realised that we imported more asbestos per head than any other country!"

Charles Pickles, CEO of Charles Pickles Associates

Do you think people working in schools, hospitals and other buildings operated by the public sector are aware of the risks of asbestos generally and the risks in their own workplace?

"As a general rule, no. The maintenance teams are much more aware but the main occupational groups working in schools and hospitals are not so aware, in my opinion. But nor should they be: they have an important job to do teaching or caring for people. The buildings are there to facilitate this. They do not want to be caught up in asbestos management and nor should they be. This position actually brings into question what materials can be managed and where.  Accepting the above, high risk materials, in busy occupied areas are unmanageable. We have to accept that “Management in-situ” was a sort of muddle through and hope for the best policy, and move on to prioritised, phased and safe removal."

What do you feel that politicians can realistically do to reduce the number of people who are exposed to asbestos?

"The Work and Pensions Select Committee looked at this area last year and produced an incisive and forward thinking report. We should adopt their recommendations in full, particularly the recommendation for a National Asbestos Database and a strategy of phased and prioritised removal. Moreover, if politicians realised that asbestos stands in the way of all major infrastructure projects dealing with older buildings, they would realise that an informed plan for asbestos is an essential enabling pre-requisite, for all the policy goals they promise us. If they want to deliver upon those promises, they need a plan and it starts with a plan for asbestos."

Having run a very successful asbestos consultancy business, if you could go back and change one thing what would it be?

"I’m not going back: it’s too much like hard work! Personally, I would have recruited more people earlier on, delegated more duties to help out and to try to alleviate some of the burden from my shoulders and those of my colleagues a little earlier. The constant stress alters you profoundly as a person eventually. Another related theme would be, “don’t sweat the small stuff”. The number of times I went home stressed out for days at a time over comparatively small issues, were innumerable. This state of constant stress, anxiety and adrenaline is great for a few years, but takes its toll. I would say, gain some perspective, delegate in a timely fashion, relax and enjoy the journey. Hindsight is but such a wonderful thing!"

Mavis Nye BEM BCAh (hon)DR

Do you think people working in schools, hospitals and other buildings operated by the public sector are aware about the risks of asbestos generally and the risks in their own workplace?

"No, so many are not aware of the risks and dangers to themselves let alone to the pupils and staff in the building. Also the many trades people that work and visit each day. A duty to care is not always followed."

Since you were diagnosed with mesothelioma what are the most important things that you have learned about asbestos?

"Since I was diagnosed I have learnt so much and know just how we were kept in the dark about asbestos. It should have been banned many years ago but protection would have helped.

Compensation is all well and good but I’m still suffering and will die in due course of a man made disaster as so many have already fallen fowl and will continue for many years to come.

We must also stop burying asbestos and dispose of it safely. We must put more funds into research to treat mesothelioma."

What message would you give to anyone who is exposed to asbestos or works with asbestos?

"Firstly make sure you are well protected when you work; treat asbestos with respect, it does harm your lungs. Make sure you have medicals.
Always seek medical advice if you have symptoms like coughing, feeling short of breath or chest pain. Talk to your GP."

Dr. Yvonne Waterman MFAAM, President of the European Asbestos Forum

Do you think people working in schools, hospitals and other buildings operated by the public sector are aware of the risks of asbestos generally and the risks in their own workplace?

"In the Sixties, Seventies and Eighties, when asbestos was still heavily marketed and advertised, people would have been much more aware of asbestos than now. It’s a new generation now, which has heard the stories of asbestos snowball fights, chewing asbestos plugs, glamorous asbestos tile advertisements and such, but has lost the immediate recognition of asbestos products. To us, asbestos containing objects have become so common place in the sense that they are overlooked, we do not recognise them any more as such. For example, one generation of secretaries will remember asbestos containing ceiling tiles being installed; the present generation will merely see the bland and grey ceiling tiles that have ‘always’ been there. Knowing objectively about asbestos and recognising what is in front of your face in your own workplace are two very different things. Awareness, recognition of asbestos containing materials and safety protocols could be greatly improved in both workers and the general population. Everything starts with asbestos awareness."

What do you feel that politicians can realistically do to reduce the number of people who are exposed to asbestos?

"The only way to truly reduce the number of people who are exposed to asbestos is to remove the asbestos from daily life. Meaning eradication; and denaturation of asbestos can play a big part in that. Because it is simply unimaginable that we could bring all the removed asbestos to landfill; and also unethical to let future generations deal with the problem. In between now and eradication, we must try to raise more awareness of asbestos risks in order to decrease unnecessary exposures. Nobody needs to die from asbestos: remove the asbestos, eliminate the disease. Measures which can help to bring more awareness about are for instance national asbestos registries, QR codes of asbestos survey plans attached in noticeable places, mandatory asbestos surveys before buildings may be sold, a mandatory, national exposure registration, a mandatory, national registry of asbestos insurance policies for any given address or company. People need to know what they are dealing with, only armed with knowledge and awareness can they take the appropriate safety measures to protect themselves and others from asbestos exposure."

As President of EAF if you could introduce one piece of new legislation related to asbestos what would it be?

"I would make it mandatory for all workers in relevant sectors to have an asbestos recognition training in person at least once every three years, in order to encourage risk awareness and safe practices as well as to insure that their level of conscious risk awareness and knowledge doesn’t ebb away."

Is there anything else you’d like to share?

"People equate asbestos cancer with mesothelioma. What they don’t realise, is that there are several asbestos related lung cancer victims for every mesothelioma victim - probably at least twice as many, possibly five or even six times as much. It’s very much a recent insight of science. The ‘other’ victims do not show up in the outdated statistics and receive little or no recognition or compensation. Really, the asbestos problem in terms of victims is much bigger than we realise, considering that other forms of globally recognised asbestos-related cancers are often not included in statistics either (think laryngeal cancer, colorectal cancer etc.). We need much better statistics in order to see the real size and nature of the problem; and also to guide policy and justice. Professor Jukka Takala said something very important about that at the EAF 2019 conference: policy follows data, not the other way round. We need much better asbestos data in order to justify more social policy and investments for a healthier society, also to enable recognition and compensation for these ignored asbestos victims, too."